thoreau wrote:
The bit I bolded...agreed 100%

This needs clarification & a policy decision made imo, otherwise posters who seem to be obsessed with the subject (no offence amarals) *could* end up turning our general section into something horribly resembling the DIF version. People don't want that I'm sure.

Personally I also think it would be better to have single threads, or the least amounts of threads possible at least... for the same topic. It keeps the forum organised, and all of the information and debate is in one place. These kind of threads were sometimes called 'Mega' threads over at you know where. While I dont think using that terminology is necessary, I do think it is tidier for the forum as a whole, to merge topics and posts about the same subject, into one relevant thread on that subject.

Then members who wish to discuss and debate such topics can also find them easier, all the debate and discussion is in the one place instead of scattered all over what is a fairly large forum and amount of categories.

In this case we could title it "The holocaust thread" or something similar.

my 2c, and I would like to hear more members opinions on this also.

thoreau wrote:
Eh?

I'm not discounting it - I highlighted it. I just don't see it's relevance.

Maybe you agree that Germany needs to get some of it's ancient lands back on that basis?

I think the fact that the Israeli ancient claim to this area is based on the story that they committed genocide to get in in the first place kind of rules them out really.

andyh wrote:
Why is control of that believe any different?

Control it and you are the top dog.

And anyone who thinks the human race could continue without a medium of exchange hasn't thought it through properly.

andyh wrote:
Perhaps I need to get into Nibiru or something.

Are you serious?

Interest in the subject of Israel, it's creation and the reason why it gets away with what it does isn't in any way bizarre, It's something everyone should have an interest in.

I'm assuming you've all studied Krema II and III and know how they worked as gas chambers in order to kill 800,000 jews?

If you haven't then back off. You need to do some research and stop sniping at the person who has,

Debate me and stop trying to pressure novum into not having holocaust discussions on the forum.

I posted about the crazy mechanics of Krema II a while back and that of course was ignored. Why did they design a death machine with a ridiculous bottleneck?

Eh?

Historians are constantly reassessing history.

Katyn Forest anyone?

Because everything we have ever been told is truth?

None of you believe in conspiracy or "big lies"?

Of course you do.

You'll hear no objection from me if a 70 odd year old conspiracy ends up in 'history'.

It's a conspiracy that has continued for 70 years and is still ongoing today.

The fact that people are in jail NOW because of it - because of thought crime - makes it one of the most relevant topics of our time.

oioioi wrote: Yes, from the same OP.

I didn't notice you to be in confrontation mode.

The Holocaust is a very interesting subject and one that I have spent hours looking into. Of course there are many lies,but the same can be said for every war that has ever been waged and the effect that it has had on the people will either be exaggerated or down played. As we know.....wars aren't started for nothing and gain is the objective.

This subject was done to death on the dif, so to see it now appearing on two separate threads here..... is rather off putting.

One thread to deal with this subject would be far more sensible than having it pop up at random in completely unrelated threads.

I realise that new members need to get a feel for the place, so I will say no more.

Here is my ha'pence worth! I think that no subject should be off-limits for discussion here provided the participants remain calm and respectful. The trouble with all the "holocaust" threads I've seen feelings do naturally run very high and people can get pretty upset. The subject needs to be approached with great care.

I tend to stay out of threads dealing with this subject as it is so delicate and my knowledge is limited. Speaking personally, I was of course like most Brits brought up to accept the Holocaust as fact, and it would be difficult for me to abandon that view-point, especially as I have relatives who went though WWII still living. However, I do accept that lies get told in war-time and we may never know the whole story.

Mandy

ok say whole holocaust hasnt happened and then, what now?

what would change?whats the goal?

I wanted to address this point quickly - This forum is run as a community - we make decisions together about things and everyones input is valid here - The consensus appears to be that no topic should be off limits but that they should be kept to the right area. People have the freedom to choose what subjects they wish to post about and how deeply they wish to research them - lastly people can research as deeply as someone else and come to a different conclusion - thats ok - room for all sorts of opinions here as long as we all respect each others right to their opinion.

amaralsright wrote:
Money is a human concept.
You see the concept came first then we made it.
If you think money is human nature then you have a lot to learn about who and what you are and what you are capable of.
It is the mind that controls not the money, its not a difficult thing to envisage imho.
Humanity has been controlled by such ideas since before Plato, there have been many such characters throughout history, Bernays for example. Discussion of where the concepts come from can lead to far more interesting and enlightening discussion than the discussion of the material thing that the mind has spawned. Power does not derive from the material but the belief in it, just as religion has its power from belief and politics so does money and the whole economy and the greater societal machinations themselves are all products of the mind they are NOT human nature..they are human nurture.
You are not born knowing these concepts, you are taught them, you are brainwashed into a system of perpetual cognitive dissonance because the world we live in is flawed in so many ways. Your mind knows this of course, so we live in a state of constant denial in order to 'conform'.

Discussion of the jews and holocaust etc is merely analyzing a symptom of a much greater problem which gave rise to it.

Discussion of human nature and who you really are pushes you to your mental limits, people on DIF for the most part did not want to do it, they prefer to do this endless circle jerk of rinse and repeat childish pathetic symptom instead of disease topics.

hadabusa wrote:
OK so 9/11 was an inside job... what would change whats the goal?
OK so chemtrails are real... what would change whats the goal?
OK so ...

Do you really need to ask?

People are IN PRISON because of thought crimes on the Holocaust.

At the very least they would be released.

A worthy goal?

thoreau wrote:
So you're onboard as well with discussing the Holocaust.

Great.

quietgirl wrote:
What you've probably seen is the people who don't want the Holocaust discussed in any detail deliberately starting flame wars and name calling. The "Nazi" label gets thrown in and it goes downhill from there. The mods step in and the thread gets locked or "ranted" and everyone gets pissed off.

It's a common tactic.

Sadly.

Meanwhile people are in prison for thought crime.

amaralsright wrote:
I have a slightly different perspective on the above - people are ok with the holocaust being discussed but then posters ruin it by going to far and rather then asking genuine questions about the holocaust they cross a line into anti semitism which in turn results in the calling out of said anti semitism which leads to petty circular arguments that go nowhere - thread is then ranted or locked.

The holocaust is a highly emotive subject and whilst I am not questioning your voracity in wishing to discuss it or your motives for such discussion - other forums and the posters therein have clearly had an agenda that goes beyond wishing to discuss the holocaust in a factual manner and see it as a platform from which to spread hateful and bigoted bullshit.

I may be wrong but I do not think anyone here is in agreement with denial laws.

I would also add that in internet Holocaust debates there is normally a suspect supposedly on your side giving the "yang" to "ying" of the people doing the flaming which results in the thread going downhill.

It gets very frustrating.

There are people out there who will do anything to make sure people don't discuss the details of the Holocaust.

The extreme is in Germany where in court, the person accused of "Holocaust denial" is not allowed to defend himself by discussing his research in court. Neither is his lawyer who can also go to prison for doing so.

That is INSANE.

Why is that even necessary?

Everyone who believes in freedom should be up in arms about that.

But the truth will out some day as more and more people actually start checking it out for themselves.

thoreau wrote:
What should be done about the denial laws?

One way is to get people to understand the position of the people in prison and their research.

The more people that understand what it is they are saying the better.

I personally think that the German people should be allowed to study and discuss their own past without hindrance.

We would soon see how long the Holocaust story would last.

Personally I would remove the denial laws - make freely available all documents and evidence related to the time from both sides and leave those who wish to discuss it to it - anyone using the holocaust as a platform to spread hate should still be pulled up as such - give people the opportunity to challenge those who are unable to talk about such subjects with sensitivity and honesty - people power rather then political enforcement.