www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/WP436/WP436.pdf

The above linked pdf shows how many people with kids are simply better off on the dole!
This is Ireland of course and the dole is significantly higher here than in the UK, but this report is quite accurate and shows just how stupid the 'system' really is.

It is of course completely unavoidable as western civilisation is doomed to collapse as wages fall, income tax returns fall, more and more end up on the dole, austerity means govt spends less on growth, govt fails.

The banks are only accelerating the inevitable imho.

The only solution is a return to govt treasury money but it must be implemented on a wide scale globally to screw the bankers.

andyh wrote:
I dont see anything in that report about how self employed businessmen are able to avail of all the tax breaks that others cant get, along with the manipulation of a companys funds, that go unpunished. And we blame it all on those unemployed. Yep they are responsible. Nothing there either about the job bridge schemes abuse of those unlucky enough to be out of work either. And this old argument about Ireland rates versus uk rates is a crock too. lets compare like with like.

No doubt you have gathered, that attacks on the least well off in society, annoy me to say the least.

griswald

Yes andy, we've also talked about technological unemployment before iirc. Something which factors into all this too.
It's an absolutely ludicrous way of organizing a population and the tasks that need to be done isn't it
One could almost believe it was all part of a plan! No surely not
Many are choosing to run to the hills and look after number one in the face of what's around the corner. I see sensible precaution being prudent, as yet though I still see there is a duty to try and stimulate unity among the people of the world. Only through that unity can we even begin to think about turning this stuff back toward the mental cesspit it came from.

Griswald wrote:
lol yes I do know how it annoys you (as it annoys me).

This report isn't about blaming doleys, its about how you are simply better off on the dole if you have kids and if you don't have a high salary normally (lets say you get 30 odd k per annum and you have a few kids then you are better off on the dole, especially if you have to drive a fair distance to work).

There are some aspects here where Ireland sucks...

1) Public transport even where it exists goes the wrong bloody way or doesn't stop where housing really is...

2) Nearly all work thats worth bothering with is in Cork or Dublin

3) Decent shops are spread out over distance, only places like centra and supervalu (superripoff lol) are usually within close range and they're nothing like as cheap as say lidl/aldi.

4) Car road tax here is bloody insane!

However on the plus side..

The dole here is orders of magnitude larger as is pension and even child benefit is fecking huge compared to the UK.
Its also possible to get a decent house at an affordable rent (but definitely not to buy- its unaffordable for most people now all over the EU just as it has been for a very long time imho) and up til recently theres been no council tax, water charges etc but these are coming imho...

So really this is about the collapse of a system that requires the 'western paradigm' to be maintained, which ofc it aint
The money is moving eastwards now and going into concentrated hands.
The rest of it is simply moving in to the banking black hole.

There is simply no growth, its impossible to have any growth now.

Economic growth being the holy cow that sits next to the altar of fractional reserve and usury

andyh wrote:
If the speculators and greedy business men that brought the construction sector to a total collapse, paid their fair share of tax, and stopped abusing the work schemes here, we might be on the way to a fairer society. The system rewards the top earners and business people as a whole, moreso than the less well off in society. You wont find a paye worker able to avail of tax breaks and pension amounts from the government, that business people do. Paye workers have paid into the system, so they should be able to avail of it.
That old argument that ireland rates are way above uk rates. Have you ever asked yourself how far down the foodchain the uk rates are, you should, and do the research its out there. And what about the offshore bank accounts business people managed to operate here with for decades. You wont find too many paye workers in that list, as they are mugged at source.
And lets not forget the poverty rates as defined in best research, why was Ireland far below that for decades.
Do the research and define whether the current rates here match or are below the accepted poverty rates. And while you are at it, research the health of those that try to exist on dole rates as opposed to those that earn the average rate of pay.

griswald

Griswald wrote:
The average rate of pay? They're not entitled to a medical card and they can't afford private healthcare either Gris
So again you see how being on the dole is best of you have kids if all you can get is 25-35k ish?

As for the tax thing, I pointed out in a separate thread that intel are moving to Ireland to build processors now and have even turned down a $1 billion grant from the israeli govt to stay in Israel.

The tax advantage in Ireland is literally worth that much to them, it will create a few thousand jobs (in Dublin) that will pay average wage again for the most part but you know what will happen the moment that tax advantage goes away

Also with austerity those benefits will start to dwindle ofc and now that Ireland has handed over fiscal sovereignty to the IMF they'll see that tax break disappear too

I remember one particular restart interview I had for which I'd done my homework. I'd done the maths and worked out what I'd need to earn to be in exactly the same financial position but down 40 hours a week then from this derived a minimum hourly rate which I was willing to work for. I don't remember how much it was but it was roughly double what you were 'allowed' to put. When they told me "you can't possibly expect to earn that much!" my response was "you can't possibly expect me to work to be financially worse off AND away from my family for 40 hrs a week". The guy had no argument and 'ticked the box' for me.

I later found out I had been 'coded', marked as a pest basically, and from then on got very little hassle. They need unemployed people, I demonstrated I needed to be unemployed, an unspoken mutual understanding was reached

The only way out of this is to help those who want to help themselves leave behind that well all know is slowly strangling their whole and those that want to blindly ignore the evidence, let them die.
This is what the elite are doing as we speak and we are all helping them wheather we like it or not it is fact.
Twenty years ago an old man and relative advised us to prepare, that is what my message here is telling all those who are watching, it is really simple, throughout every single debate and human.farming lesson it is still deviding the cows on the farm, each cow is capable of stopping the farmer from holding it in tphe field supplied, the grass in that field is running.out.

There is still time to burn the couch grass called money and start working together using the most valuble commodity called our labour.

Let the food, shoe, clothing mountain be your own, go half way buy the ticket with that labour, in your own time instead of vatar grasp the knowledge that will destroy the ignorant man viewing the illusion that is technology to control not enable the mind.


We are living.proof of

andyh wrote:
Not every one on the dole, qualifies for everything going. You need to do the research on that one too
If those on the dole were offered a fair wage for a fair days work, | know a lot that would jump at that. But the government have seen fit to force 50+ dole payment schemes, this totally undermines the minimum wage. how can anyone work for 233 euro a week. Its the new slavery ethic that benefits business,s. If these positions are there, why cant they be turned into real jobs, not schemes.Unemployed want jobs, not a life on the dole.

griswald

Griswald wrote: True if they have a lot of savings they won't get owt

Correctamundo and business wants profits.

Never the twain will meet

I often tell people who whine about doleys that they ought to be handing out govt jobs for them then.
It still doesn't shut them up ofc lol

Business demands cheap labour to produce and high priced goods to sell.
It can't continue as the very people they aim to sell at high prices to are the ones ending up on the dole

It's a diminishing loop. The more cutbacks the fewer customers they have, the more they lay off the even less customers they have and so on.

andyh wrote:
Your statements about qualifications for medical cards are wrong, you need to stop generalising or back your facts up.

griswald

Which brings us right back to the beginning and the need for self preservation via gaining the knowledge to free yourself using your own labour for as many of the vital things needed to function with less of the problem that is creating that which on thinks they cannot live without.
No matter who controls this illusion there will always be those who want to work less and have more of someone elses labour, thus eventually stealing from themselves, which their followers inevitably suffer for from the laziness and indirect violence of those ancestors.

The result of and the clear view of is constantly being ignored by the majority safe in the knowledge that they did well or made a killing so they are ok in the moment.

They are killing themselves softly with this song, so let them die happy singing.





andyh wrote:

Griswald wrote:
www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/ent...es/medical_card.html

^

If I'm in work I'm not entitled to medical cards of any type at all because I earn too much (and lets face it, thats not difficult with those figures for means tested cards).

If I'm out of work then I'm means tested and so long as I have bugger all savings and I'm on welfare then it's medical card time innit

andyh wrote:
I think you might need to read the stats again. Its a common misconception that all those who claim dole get medical cards. They dont, and its not because of savings. Its because the income guidelines would be above the ceiling allowed.

Married or cohabiting couple (or lone parent with dependent children) €266.50 The jobseekers rate for a married couple would be above this, so they may not qualify for a medical card. So its not medical card time innit for them.

And just in case you are still under the illusion that doleys are living it up. You need to start caring , instead of condemning

www.eapn.ie/documents/1_Social%20Welfare...es%20in%20Europe.pdf

griswald

Weird, I must have missed andy condemning "doleys".

Did you edit that bit out before I got here andy?

Griswald wrote:

Job Seekers Allowance is only for those who have enough NI paid up Gris.
Otherwise you're means tested, of course if you have kids you would easily be well within the limits shown which harks back to what I said about being better off on the dole IF YOU HAVE KIDS

dubmeup wrote:
No, it would show as edited, lol.
I think Gris got his wires crossed and thought it was that fella in Norway posting...remember him? He was called Andy too yeh?
LOL

Griswald wrote:
So Gris...

Where have I said that doleys are living it up?