Ok, I know it's early days and that we are justifiably all a bit pre-occupied at the moment but this section has been way to quiet so I am kick starting it:

This topic does exactly what it says on the tin.

A place for those of us that grow fruit and veg or would like to, to share ideas, seek help with issues and otherwise just chat about our experience with good old homegrown food.

I have had to scale right back this year because our property has been put on the market and we are now on a rolling one month tenancy. This means we are restricting ourselves to quickly maturing things like salads. I am deeply annoyed by this but hey, them's the breaks.

I am however very excited at what is just around the corner. The rhubarb is good to go, the currants are swelling and the goosegogs are too. Jam making time will soon be upon us Bloody hell I love Jam!!!

dubmeup wrote:
Sheesh!
So you're going to be on the lookout for somewhere new too then?

andyh wrote:
Yeah we are sadly. We'll be lucky to find somewhere locally like this that we can afford

Here we have land, outbuildings, seclusion....all the stuff we need to live the way we need to.

The owner won't be able to sell the place at the price he wants for it. The house needs knocking down and rebuilding. It's non standard construction for a start and has many many expensive issues. So the only people who'll buy it are developers who seek to flatten it and add another house on our veg plot

So we aren't expecting to have to move tomorrow but it's our cue to get out. We can't live under that kind of threat. We need to know that when we plant stuff, it will come to maturity for instance.

Things are a little restricted because my better half has a long term job in the nearest village and wants to keep it. Her transport is an electric assisted bike (we have BIG hills!) so we can't move more than a few miles further out. We did see an awesome place last week that would have been perfect. Half a mile down it's own track, backing onto a large broadleaf wood. Veg plot already installed, workshop, the lot. They wanted silly money for it though, and I mean silly. Another £350 on what we pay here a month!

Hmm the rents in the UK combined with the council tax forced me out tbh.
The wages over there just don't match the cost, especially if you're the only breadwinner and have kids.

Most landlords are greedy bastards, which doesn't help matters....its not much different over here but at least no council tax and the rents are achievable given the wages if you know what I mean.
Theres also the much bigger houses and land that comes with them too...

Excellent thread dubs!

I got a top tip from a zombie-slaying vid on YT recently, of all places.

It was re growing veg indoors in stacked containers on a shelving unit.

Basically, he had a wire shelving rack in a big window. He cut holes in the bottom of some large, plastic storage boxes, hanged tomato plants upside down through the holes, secured by some polystyrene, filled the boxes with compost and was good to go.

I think he had other things growing there too, but it didn't really take up much space. Because they were all stacked on shelves, he watered from the top shelf, which then filtered down to whatever he growing on the shelf beneath.

I'll see if I can find the vid again.

Sorry I'll get back on topic..
/sheepish look

I tried to grow some broad beans once outside...and they did great, shooting off to a hell of a height the smell made me drool

And then disaster struck, within 48 hrs the plant was crawling with small black flies and withered and died.

How the hell do you keep them off?

Naturally a greenhouse would help but I'd imagine some would even find their way in.

andyh wrote:
Broad beans are renowned for being attacked over night by aphids. It's soul destroying when it happens. There are things you can do though on a small scale. Planting things that attract hover flies and lady birds helps. Spraying them with mildly soapy water helps. Fleece helps. Really though, predator insects are your best friend. If you can get the ecology of your garden right, you shouldn't have a build up of pests. So, religious weeding for example is not always good. Keeping your plot rather akin to the surrounding country is a good idea in my book. On the farms (organic) we weed when we have to, if the weeds will negatively impact the crops. Other than that we leave be. This keeps the natural insects about, which helps with pests.

Ab Origine wrote:
Haha yes, I watched that vid, I liked his indoor garden

We garden using the Indo technique and part double dig, to do this you need to get those weeds outta there, for certain plants we line the trenches the year before with green manure or about a couple of weeks before we plant the spuds so a hot bed is created, which.encourages early growth and by.the time the plants get going the worms have converted the green into cast composts which.the plants love, let natures unpaid servants help those who want better food.

Planting of plants is done tightish in diagonal rows so when they grow there are no inline gaps when you look across the rows, this cuts out most of the direct sunlight to the bare soil and stops 80% of the weeds.

Cold frames we line the underlying with a 2" layer of fresh horse manure and above that a two inch layer of 50/50 soil/compost we make ourselves, weeds and everything get chopped up fine apart from meat and citrus products that are of no use to the enzymes in the composting process.

Last year we filled our windowsills with all types of tom,s and had a hell of a crop right up until the end of october and filled hanging baskets with the hanging cherry version....We have freinds who have a large balcony on their property and the stuff they grow is amazing.

The secret to getting seedlings going is underheating, we don,t bother with expensive propergators or seedling tray covers we place the trays into plastic bags and place them above the stove which.works well.

The compost method can be used for about 19 years before the ground needs replenishing with rotted organics like manure and the indo technique using also charcoal indefinately, the gold of elderado technigue is what we use for the biggest vedge you have ever seen, works in tubs as well.

andyh wrote:
Grow a companion plant like a tobacco up the middle of the climbing frames and the bugs will run a mile.
We make a tapering round tower out of free riverside willow withies, if I can work out how to post pictures here I will show some.

Basically you make varying sized hoops while the sticks/withies are still fresh and add several uprights at intervals around the outside, to tie things together strip the bark off while still green to use as binding, all free from nature.

These kinds of threads is what is going to get many people through the weaning period the government has planned for you and I and the slaves somewhere else to keep us alive.
The big problem arises way down the road when most of our skills have been depleted and the former slave then demands a decent wage as capitalism starts to bite, our lack of foresight and willful blindness will decimate our next generation into parting with their labours but not on their terms.
Keeping the knowledge here and free is the security package for the whole and to stem the money flow by helping those who want to help themselves will secure the longevity of their whole.

Great forum so as long as those looking are gaining without paying but using their hand to eye coordination to empower their whole with savings galore, which kills the corporate killer in motion.

dubmeup wrote:
we can save double that difference every year with our plot and a couple of greenhouse, once the hard dig is out of the way it gets much easier there afterwards, also keeps you fitter and the food healthier.

Outbuildings is another bonus for us and a large shed or man cave does the same, if things get more expensive food wise eventually people will have to start growing their own to make ends meet, with multiple skills most of the pain goes away.

Man to hand and not machine is the way forward, man working truly for himself and not another doing nothing for himself does'nt work long term, we will all witness it happen.

The Apprentice wrote:
Problem is we already have been saving that We've been growing our veg for years and there isn't another £4k p/a saving to be had

Even if there were, we aren't in a position to front up the necessary, nor are we inclined to line the pockets of a greedy barsteward.

I will reiterate my view that weeding is not always a good thing. Adopting permaculture principles (ie minimal interference) where you can is a sound and beneficial principle. In the wider natural world (except things like locusts) there is rarely a problem with pest accumulation. This is something we can mimic in our plots by allowing mother nature to carry on and working around her.


The principle of green manures that the apprentice touched on is a very sound one and has many uses.

I have used them as a part of a ground clearing/preparation process on many occasions and they really do work.

First step is removing perrenial weeds like bindweed, redshank, ground elder and the ilk (yes I am advocating that less weeding is more but I mean in the plot in general not so much in amongst your crops, perrenial weeds are a no no in crops) as best you can. You'll never do it in one hit but you can get 80% of them out.

Next, I cover the ground for a few months. By that I mean putting something like old carpet on it. This blocks the light out and further helps sort out the perrenials.

Then I would plant potatoes as a clearing crop to further help get on top of the perrenial weeds. You probably won't get a massive yield from that but it's not the point.

Then comes green manure. Red clover and the bean family will fix nitrogen from the atmosphere, into the soil. If you pull up one of these plants when they are mature you will see little white globules on the roots. That is nitrogen. Turn the crop into the ground and you have boosted the nitrogen content immensely. Some self made compost added at this point will further condition the soil, encourage worms and aid fertility.

From then on I'd be using green manures in the rotation. Once every four years I'd sow a green manure.

As the apprentice said, you can also use them in trenches when planting beans etc. Muck is the best for this of course but not everyone either has access or inclination to muck.

dubmeup wrote:

Yup, food and clothing are just two aspects. Our skill base needs to be huge! Over the years I have enjoyed becoming a reasonable woodworker, mechanic, arborist, plumber etc. All things that I need to be able to do if I want to live my life the way I choose. By gaining these skills I've been able to reduce the amount of fiat that I need to bring in to live my life. I still have much to learn! I would not know where to start with making a pair of work boots for example

For sure, not all of us can push toward self sufficiency but we can all take steps to free ourselves that little bit more from reliance on the system of exploitation.

I'm hoping you will be starting a few threads that will help us up our skillbase!

I forgot to mention before that another avenue in dealing with aphids is a solution of comfrey and nettles, sprayed onto the plants. I don't know the science of it but the blighters do not like this concoction.

You can make it in a butt by just stuffing the plants in and filling it with water. Leave it alone for as long as you can to let the active bits seep into the water. The odd stir and mash will help this.

See I am not an advocate of killing pests, I am an advocate of encouraging them to look elsewhere

Yes nettle soup we call it, the smell is quite stomach churning, we fill a 40 gallon butt and bung in a plastic carrier bag sized hessian sack full of nettles and comfrey, you know when its ready alright, the stench is overpowering, we water this down 20-1 it has a high nitrogen content and the chloro contents detters the bugs.

Yes I will show the forum how to turn good boot tops into clogs once I can find an album route, can anyone help here.

There is a lot of my instruction in woodwork etc on the beekeepingforum.co.uk jusy look for threads by the apprentices that might wet your appetite, you will also find some metalworking tips in there to.

The Apprentice wrote:
Hmmm are there any tobacco plants youd recommend for our mild weather?

andyh wrote:
Any nicotiana will be a benefit. No need to go for silly showy varieties or anything. Don't try smoking it though would be my recommendation Unless you master the dark arts of curing that is. It's fekkin rank

Planting predator attractors like dwarf marigolds also helps but as I say the best way to encourage predators is to keep your plot in harmony with it's surroundings.

dubmeup wrote:
I'm surprised actually, it looks like theres people in the uk and ireland growing virginia quite successfully and curing it and shredding it.
I'm wondering if I should get a variety as I hear they can be quite attractive when flowering.